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T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

T400/T410/T420 and T500/T510/T520 Series
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BigCatAndy
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T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

#1 Post by BigCatAndy » Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:01 am

Hello dear community,

I have rather strange situation I cannot explain by myself. I had "dead" R400 without any sign of life. Yesterday I got T400 (2765-21G), working and healthy. Today I wanted to to do a test - just swapping displays (T400 - R400) to check the display of R400. I did it (I do not why but laptop does not start with R400-display at all. Never thought that display might be that critical for the laptop), and then I saw, that my LCD display of T400 does not show anything anymore. When I switch on the laptop, it becomes lightened, but no "thinkpad" word, nothing. External monitor - when connected - shows boot process properly. And I think, that Bluetooth-LED goes off shortly after start, although at the beginning it is switched on.

I checked all cables - no result. Since I never experienced something like that, I decide to ask experts here for a hint. I would appreciate any info, and of course any hint how to get my display working. I really need this laptop. :-(

Best regards from Hamburg,
Andrey
- in use -
(1) TP R61i Frankepad - 4 GB / C2D T9500 / 180 GB SSD / UXGA display
(2) Lenovo 3000 N200 - 2 GB / C2D T7300 / 160 GB
(3) TP T450s
- in museum -
IBM 600x, IBM TP T43p, Lenovo TP Z61t, Lenovo TP X60 Tablet

RealBlackStuff
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Re: T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

#2 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:04 am

Did you try a LED screen on a CCFL laptop (or v.v.)?
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
But I actually prefer Murphy's from Cork!

BigCatAndy
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Re: T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

#3 Post by BigCatAndy » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:13 am

Hello,
RealBlackStuff wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:04 am
Did you try a LED screen on a CCFL laptop (or v.v.)?
I do not know. How can I check it? And what is a difference?

After I made original post, I tried to re-seat the connector. After 1 or 2 starts the situation became even worse: internal display shows nothing at all, and when I press Fn+F7, only external display shows anything.

I'm really very upset. If I damaged my T400 just by doing this test, this might be a most stupid thing of 2021 for me. :-(
- in use -
(1) TP R61i Frankepad - 4 GB / C2D T9500 / 180 GB SSD / UXGA display
(2) Lenovo 3000 N200 - 2 GB / C2D T7300 / 160 GB
(3) TP T450s
- in museum -
IBM 600x, IBM TP T43p, Lenovo TP Z61t, Lenovo TP X60 Tablet

axur-delmeria
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Re: T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

#4 Post by axur-delmeria » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:01 am

Swapping screens, esp. between different models, should not be done without considerable research, which includes comparing the LCD panel datasheets to ensure that they are compatible.
Planned Purchase: T480s i5-8350 FHD Touch
Impulse Buy: Thinkpad not named for safety reasons :lol:
RIP: X220 4291-C91 X61 7676-A24 760XD-U9E :cry:

BigCatAndy
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Re: T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

#5 Post by BigCatAndy » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:26 am

axur-delmeria wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:01 am
Swapping screens, esp. between different models, should not be done without considerable research, which includes comparing the LCD panel datasheets to ensure that they are compatible.
I did research and I considered T400 and R400 compatible. It was my state of knowledge before I did my test.

Most important for me is to find out, if I damaged a screen or a motherboard / connector.

Regards,
Andrey
- in use -
(1) TP R61i Frankepad - 4 GB / C2D T9500 / 180 GB SSD / UXGA display
(2) Lenovo 3000 N200 - 2 GB / C2D T7300 / 160 GB
(3) TP T450s
- in museum -
IBM 600x, IBM TP T43p, Lenovo TP Z61t, Lenovo TP X60 Tablet

axur-delmeria
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Re: T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

#6 Post by axur-delmeria » Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:10 am

The fact that you don't know whether the screen is LED- or CCFL-backlit tells me that your preparations weren't enough.

That said, LCD swaps between non-identical laptops is a nerve-wracking affair even for me, especially when it's a client's laptop as it's my reputation on the line and have to pay for a replacement if I end up wrecking it. Fortunately, I haven't wrecked anyone's laptop while changing the LCD panel.

In your case though... could you shine a bright flashlight and see if you can gleam an image on the screen while the laptop is on? Hopefully it's just a backlight issue.
Planned Purchase: T480s i5-8350 FHD Touch
Impulse Buy: Thinkpad not named for safety reasons :lol:
RIP: X220 4291-C91 X61 7676-A24 760XD-U9E :cry:

BigCatAndy
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Re: T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

#7 Post by BigCatAndy » Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:57 am

axur-delmeria wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:10 am
The fact that you don't know whether the screen is LED- or CCFL-backlit tells me that your preparations weren't enough.

That said, LCD swaps between non-identical laptops is a nerve-wracking affair even for me, especially when it's a client's laptop as it's my reputation on the line and have to pay for a replacement if I end up wrecking it. Fortunately, I haven't wrecked anyone's laptop while changing the LCD panel.

In your case though... could you shine a bright flashlight and see if you can gleam an image on the screen while the laptop is on? Hopefully it's just a backlight issue.
@axur-delmeria, I do not need a lecture (especially considering that you do not really know the situation). You mentioned 3 times yourself without addressing a problem - I do not think, this will help me (even if I cannot say if my display was CCFL or LED).

additional information: I haven't just swapped the panels, I took the whole screen. The only thing I did - plugged R400-connector into T400, and then back T400-connector. Both units were complete with their original displays.
- in use -
(1) TP R61i Frankepad - 4 GB / C2D T9500 / 180 GB SSD / UXGA display
(2) Lenovo 3000 N200 - 2 GB / C2D T7300 / 160 GB
(3) TP T450s
- in museum -
IBM 600x, IBM TP T43p, Lenovo TP Z61t, Lenovo TP X60 Tablet

RealBlackStuff
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Re: T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

#8 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:33 am

BigCatAndy wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:57 am
additional information: I haven't just swapped the panels, I took the whole screen. The only thing I did - plugged R400-connector into T400, and then back T400-connector. Both units were complete with their original displays.
If you had given us this info in your first post, we wouldn't have had this discussion!
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
But I actually prefer Murphy's from Cork!

WarMachine
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Re: T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

#9 Post by WarMachine » Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:32 am

BigCatAndy wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:57 am
axur-delmeria wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:10 am
The fact that you don't know whether the screen is LED- or CCFL-backlit tells me that your preparations weren't enough.

That said, LCD swaps between non-identical laptops is a nerve-wracking affair even for me, especially when it's a client's laptop as it's my reputation on the line and have to pay for a replacement if I end up wrecking it. Fortunately, I haven't wrecked anyone's laptop while changing the LCD panel.

In your case though... could you shine a bright flashlight and see if you can gleam an image on the screen while the laptop is on? Hopefully it's just a backlight issue.
@axur-delmeria, I do not need a lecture (especially considering that you do not really know the situation). You mentioned 3 times yourself without addressing a problem - I do not think, this will help me (even if I cannot say if my display was CCFL or LED).

additional information: I haven't just swapped the panels, I took the whole screen. The only thing I did - plugged R400-connector into T400, and then back T400-connector. Both units were complete with their original displays.
Hello,

I don't think Axur lectured you. I've read a lot of his posts and the informations he gives are always very valuable. :)
The fact is that it's always complicated to change a screen. Screen alone, or the upper assembly of the laptop. If I had to change the whole assembly, I would only use a replacement from a identical machine. And if I want to change only the screen, then I look at the HMM to list the exact references of the compatible screens. It's really complicated, because once you know what you need, you must again be veeeeeery careful about what you buy (and particularly on the aftermarket). The sellers don't always sell what they advertise (or they do, but we don't read the little characters on the advertisement). Brands, models, FRUs, revisions and even specs can often change and what you receive will be different just because of what the seller has in stock when he prepares your parcel. To find THE good screen can be very time-consuming and very tricky sometimes (even more when you're on a budget) ! :(

By the way, the difference between CCFL and LED is about the backlight system of the screen. CCFL (Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamp) is an old technology, it uses neons to emit light and you also have a piece of hardware named an inverter to give them the energy. The LED technology is more recent and it uses, well, some LEDs to enlighten the screen. LEDs need less energy, are less fragile, more durable, offers a better display – colors representation, brightness –, you don't need an inverter anymore and you can also have thinner screens. Only advantages !

And I suppose you've guessed it : the two technologies are not compatible. Don't quote me on this, but I think you can have connectors physically identical, but with a different pinout. Then it's understandable that you can't have something running properly. It's like the sockets in modern desktop PCs. If you have a look at the socket 1151, for Intel, it was the same for the 6ᵗʰ, the 7ᵗʰ the 8ᵗʰ and the 9ᵗʰ generation of the Core processors. But the pinout is different for the 6ᵗʰ and 7ᵗʰ on one hand, and 8ᵗʰ and 9ᵗʰ on the other hand. So, if you can install for example a 9ᵗʰ generation Core CPU on a 7ᵗʰ generation motherboard, it fits but nothing more.

You really should try to shine a bright flashlight like Axur said, to see if something can be visible. If it's visible, then it means it's a backlightning problem. The T400 uses LED backlit screens when the R400 uses CCFL ones (that's what I found after a quick research, do not hesitate to search even more if you want :) ). For me, it's not possible to do inversions between the two displays.

W.
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BigCatAndy
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Re: T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

#10 Post by BigCatAndy » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:52 pm

Hello,
WarMachine wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:32 am
You really should try to shine a bright flashlight like Axur said, to see if something can be visible. If it's visible, then it means it's a backlightning problem. The T400 uses LED backlit screens when the R400 uses CCFL ones (that's what I found after a quick research, do not hesitate to search even more if you want :) ). For me, it's not possible to do inversions between the two displays.

W.
I tried with a direct light - no image.
Regards,
Andrey
- in use -
(1) TP R61i Frankepad - 4 GB / C2D T9500 / 180 GB SSD / UXGA display
(2) Lenovo 3000 N200 - 2 GB / C2D T7300 / 160 GB
(3) TP T450s
- in museum -
IBM 600x, IBM TP T43p, Lenovo TP Z61t, Lenovo TP X60 Tablet

axur-delmeria
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Re: T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

#11 Post by axur-delmeria » Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:13 am

If there's no video output whatsoever even with the T400's original screen, then I'm afraid there's not much we can do aside from replacing the system board--though to be honest, a complete T400 might even be a better idea it the price is low enough.

The T400 and R400 share the same HMM, so it does mean that there's some overlap regarding their parts. That said, looking at the FRU listing shows some LCD cables that are specific to the T400, some for the R400, and others are unspecified. Even more confusing, the Thinkwiki page for the T400 says it can have either CCFL- or LED-backlit screens.

Bottom line, without more information from other T400 and R400 owners who can be bothered to open up their lids and list the FRU part numbers, it's gonna be difficult to figure out which goes where-- after all, the HMM is not a bible, and certain parts listed there may not have been actually produced, while others are not listed due to being newer parts and the HMM not being updated to include them.

Perhaps scouring the web for schematic diagrams of the T400 and R400 would shed more light regarding their compatibility.
Planned Purchase: T480s i5-8350 FHD Touch
Impulse Buy: Thinkpad not named for safety reasons :lol:
RIP: X220 4291-C91 X61 7676-A24 760XD-U9E :cry:

BigCatAndy
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Re: T400: display stopped working after swapping with R400-display

#12 Post by BigCatAndy » Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:39 pm

Hello axur-delmeria,
axur-delmeria wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:13 am
If there's no video output whatsoever even with the T400's original screen, then I'm afraid there's not much we can do aside from replacing the system board--though to be honest, a complete T400 might even be a better idea it the price is low enough.

The T400 and R400 share the same HMM, so it does mean that there's some overlap regarding their parts. That said, looking at the FRU listing shows some LCD cables that are specific to the T400, some for the R400, and others are unspecified. Even more confusing, the Thinkwiki page for the T400 says it can have either CCFL- or LED-backlit screens.

Bottom line, without more information from other T400 and R400 owners who can be bothered to open up their lids and list the FRU part numbers, it's gonna be difficult to figure out which goes where-- after all, the HMM is not a bible, and certain parts listed there may not have been actually produced, while others are not listed due to being newer parts and the HMM not being updated to include them.

Perhaps scouring the web for schematic diagrams of the T400 and R400 would shed more light regarding their compatibility.
thanks for the hint.

regards,
Andrey
- in use -
(1) TP R61i Frankepad - 4 GB / C2D T9500 / 180 GB SSD / UXGA display
(2) Lenovo 3000 N200 - 2 GB / C2D T7300 / 160 GB
(3) TP T450s
- in museum -
IBM 600x, IBM TP T43p, Lenovo TP Z61t, Lenovo TP X60 Tablet

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