[T430s] backlit keyboard replacement - CHY or LTN?

[lightproof]

Hello everyone!

I have T430s and my backlit keyboard is failing miserably. It feels so flimsy I am almost afraid to touch fearing it would shatter under my fingers. My laptop is only 3 years old and spends 90% of time in a dock with external everything.
A week ago right arrow button fell off again and no amount of superglue could fix it this time as the pins underneath the button are gone and couple of days using the key without the button started to tear the underlying silicone "nipple" off.

Long story short, I need a keyboard replacement. But which one?
If I recall correctly, my keyboard is from Sunrex (SRX) and as far as I know it has the worst quality. So I seem to be left with 2 options - Chicony (CHY) and LiteOn (LTN). Guys in this Reddit thread almost unanimously praise LiteOn keyboard on T450s as superior with Chicony being close second:
https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comme ... n_part_is/

But looking at FRU list for T430s (and also for T430 and T530) it seems that LiteOn doesn't have a backlit keyboard for it. Does it mean my only option is Chicony or are there any other options?
https://download.lenovo.com/parts/Think ... RU_BOM.pdf

I would really appreciate any info and please share your experiences with backlit keyboards on T430s/T430/T530 and Chicony/LiteOn in particular. Thanks.

And by the way, the early problem with keys falling off on T430/T430s, was it with Sunrex keyboards?

[RealBlackStuff]

Most of those those T430/T530/X230/etc. keyboards are interchangeable: https://www.thinkscopes.com/2013/04/07/ ... -thinkpad/

I'd follow the 1st-LTN or 2nd-CHY suggestion for B/L keyboards, get the FRU or P/N from the frubom lists.

[tudoranadi]

Hi,

My Thinkpad came with no backlit keyboard but in the future I would love to add it one. I have found one at a good price but on a Ebay auction the guy said that you must be sure if your Thinkpad supports the backlit keyboard before I will buy it. Is it true?
There might be the chance that the backlit keyboard installed in my Thinkpad won't lit?

Thanks in advance!

[lightproof]

get the FRU or P/N from the frubom lists.

Thanks for the link! I have checked all the compatible FRU lists but seems to me LiteOn didn't manufacture backlit keyboards for x30 series ThinkPads, only Chicony and Sunrex did.
Anyway, I have found total of 3 different FRUs for Chicony keyboard, some of which were marked as PRIMARY for one or another ThinkPad model (as were other manufacturer's FRUs):

04Y0528	CS12 B/L KBD USE CHY
04W3063	CS12 B/L KBD USE CHY
04X1240	CS12 B/L KBD USE CHY

What's the difference between them? Is there any? I mean, they're all made by Chicony and have the same specs.

[RealBlackStuff]

Other than the P/N or FRU: probably no differences at all.
You'll need to check the keyboard P/N or FRU numbers from all the matching Thinkpads in that link.
That's what we call "doing your homework".

[lightproof]

You'll need to check the keyboard P/N or FRU numbers from all the matching Thinkpads in that link.

That's exactly what I did. These 3 FRUs are consistent among all matching Thinkpads. There is no LiteOn backlit keyboard in any of them and some models have all three FRUs in the list.

Any idea why they would have different FRUs for the same item? Just curious.

And what does "bom" in "frubom" stand for?

[RealBlackStuff]

Can't help you there, as I don't touch any newer Lenovo models after the T420/T520/X220 series.
Reason: their gawdawful keyboard layout.

BOM means: Bill Of Materials

T431s:
04X0101 2 CS13T B/L KBD USE CHY - Primary
04X0139 2 CS13T B/L KBD USE LTN - Secondary

The T530/X230 series should have the same keyboards as well.

Also have a look here: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-T ... d-p/981323

[lightproof]

T431s:
04X0101 2 CS13T B/L KBD USE CHY - Primary
04X0139 2 CS13T B/L KBD USE LTN - Secondary

T431(s) keyboard is incompatible with te rest of x30 series as it doesn't have trackpad buttons. It's the same gelded keyboard as on T440.

So Chicony it is.

[lightproof]

There might be the chance that the backlit keyboard installed in my Thinkpad won't lit?

If you are referring to T430 in your signature, than backlight will work fine. Only L430/L530 models won't lit a keyboard with backlight.

Check the FRU number of the keyboard you are buying and choose one of three I posted above. Otherwise you can end up with Sunrex manufactured keyboard and eventually suffer from the same problem as I do with keys falling off.

If you need a language specific keyboard, then look it up in FRU list for your ThinkPad model as I did.

[tudoranadi]

There might be the chance that the backlit keyboard installed in my Thinkpad won't lit?

If you are referring to T430 in your signature, than backlight will work fine. Only L430/L530 models won't lit a keyboard with backlight.

Check the FRU number of the keyboard you are buying and choose one of three I posted above. Otherwise you can end up with Sunrex manufactured keyboard and eventually suffer from the same problem as I do with keys falling off.

If you need a language specific keyboard, then look it up in FRU list for your ThinkPad model as I did.

Yeah, I am refering to the T430 from my signature. I've almost ended up buying a Sunrex but after checking the FRU number I canceled the order. I have seen the same problem discussed here. I can't see Lite-ON manufacturer for T430, onyl Chicony. How good is it? Thanks!

[brchan]

I had the Chicony in my W530 before I replaced it with a classic keyboard. Decent keyboard, though a tad bit less key travel than the classic ones. Keys pick up grease easily, but don't develop shine easily.

[lightproof]

So, I have recieved the new keyboard today. I decided to go with standard US layout again as I already got used to blind typing without russian letters anyway. And it looks cleaner. The FRU is 04X1240 (US English, made by Chicony, with backlight), bought off ebay for $38 plus $4 shipping. Took 8 days which is very fast for parcels shipping to Russia. The seller is laptek_electronic, in case anyone is interested.

Overall I like the Chicony keyboard much better. Here are the differences compared to Sunrex:

• The key look/finish is more matte and is smoother visually and to the touch. Fingers glide easier and dont stick to keys anymore.

• Keys are a bit lower, which results in better feel and also in less light leaking from around the keys, epecially in front. EDIT: actual keys are lower, but the key travel seems to be the same. Probably that's why they feel better.

• Key travel is more distinct with less side-to-side wobbling.

• Keypress sound is lower pitched, keys sound much less flimsy.

• ESC key bends pretty much, depending on which corner if the key you press, with top left being the most concern.

• All top row keys (Esc, F keys, Del) are higher than other keys. They are higher than keys on Sunrex keyboard, which were all the same height, but higher than Chicony. I presume it is deliberately made this way to make finding the top row keys by feel easier. And it works as there is noticable step up in height. Consequently, light leaks more from under top row.

• The top strip with volume and power buttons has smoother texture.

• Trackpoint buttons have slightly smoother texture.

And the most unexpected difference: trackpoint works much better as there is virtually no pointer drift! The only way I can see it so far is by deliberately dragging the pointer very slowly for 5-10 seconds and then letting it go. And even then it doesn't happen every time. With Sunrex keyboard it was much worse.
EDIT: probably not much worse, as the drift is still there, but subjectively Chicony seems to be better.

Of course, I can't say anything about actual key sturdiness and how they will hold up in the long run, but I hope it'll be fine. I will post if anything bad happens.

Overall, I think it's a must have replacement if you have Sunrex keyboard, especially if your keys already started falling off :)

UPDATE: unfortunately, the Chicony made keyboard suffered the fate similar to my original keyboard made by Sunrex. After roughly 1.5 months of use some part of the letter H key cap hook broke off. It resulted in the H key sometimes swinging out like an open door, being held only by the hooks on the left side. Being one of the three keys around the TrackPoint meant it was happening all the time. I was not able to repair the key cap, no matter what I did, and ordering a single spare key cap for the price of 1/5 of the new keyboard was not an option.

During the year I'have been using the keyboard I have got somewhat used to the key swinging like this, so I just snapped it back each time it swung to the side. But it was distracting nonetheless. Nothing else broke during that time, but I was probably much more careful with the keyboard so nothing else would break.

While shopping for yet another replacement keyboard I decided to give the classic keyboard mod a try instead. As I couldn't find an NMB made keyboard, which is regarded the best (it's harder to get outside of US), I bought a Chicony made one (FRU #45N2211). When I received it I was amazed by how much better the build quality and overall feel are! Key press feedback is nice and firm and the keys themselves are very sturdy, without any wobbling. It's very comfortable to type on, mostly because of the slanted key profile that allows your fingers to glide from key to key easily, while on chiclet keyboard my fingers would often stumble on the key cap side ridge. Also the textured surface is more pleasant to the touch.
Even without flashing the EC firmware the keyboard is a huge step up from either of the stock xx30 series backlit keyboards. While I miss backlight a bit, I'm more than willing to deal without it in this case.

UPDATE 2: a month into using the classic keyboard (still have not flashed EC firmware) and I can tell one thing for sure: it's almost impossible to make the TrackPoint drift, to the point that I can barely do it on purpose! Even in that case it drifts just a hair, but stops almost instantly after I let go. This is an immense improvement over both stock backlit keyboards I had before.

[tudoranadi]

Do have any photo of the new keyboard with it's backside?

There are the same model on Ebay with a black layer (protective?) and without it.

Thanks!

[brchan]

Do have any photo of the new keyboard with it's backside?

There are the same model on Ebay with a black layer (protective?) and without it.

Thanks!

The Chicony backlit keyboards have a black film on the back. Not sure of the others.

[tudoranadi]

Do have any photo of the new keyboard with it's backside?

There are the same model on Ebay with a black layer (protective?) and without it.

Thanks!

The Chicony backlit keyboards have a black film on the back. Not sure of the others.

I have seen on Ebay the same model FRU 04X1240 (US English, made by Chicony, with backlight) with or without the black film. That's my concern.

[lightproof]

Can't say anything about the protective layer, but mine has it and my Sunrex keyboard actually has it too. This is the Chicony -- http://i64.tinypic.com/122hizq.jpg. Sorry for the picture quality, it was shot on the phone, but I can reshoot in high quality if needed.

And here is a link to the actual lot I bought: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161765281150. By the way, I've just noticed that the seller's photo is incorrect and shows Sunrex keyboard.

Just a quick disclaimer: although my experience with this particular seller was good, the decision whether to buy from him/her is up to you and I am not responsible if your experience varies.

[tudoranadi]

Ok, thanks for your reply. I'll try to be more careful when I should choose the backlit keyboard.