Thinkpads Forum

First i'll explain a little bit of my situation and what i want (and why) , then I'll pose the questions. Please feel free to comment on the part before the questions if you feel there's anything worth mentioning though, or if you have any recommendations or observations.

So my t61p just died and I'd been wanting to get a new, more powerful thinkpad for a while now.

I'd mainly been looking at the t440p since I need the performance (I run gentoo), and as far as I know you can upgrade its cpu to a core i7-4910MQ , which is fine for me.

I need an absolute minimum of 16GiB of ram, however I'd prefer 32Gib. From what I've gathered, I can only have that if I go with the worstation series, the closest equivalent being the w540, which, apart from the screen being 1.6 inches too long for me, which I can tolerate, would be fine I guess. Although I'll probably get the w541 since I've heard there's some issues with the screen on the w540.

Now my questions:

1. How can I ensure that the model I purchase is compatible with a 32GiB of ram upgrade? Because i've seen some people say only some models of the w541 are compatible with 32GiB of ram.

2. I've also read you can theoretically upgrade to a core i7-4940MX . That would be nice, but would if be safe? Mainly asking because of the potential temperature issues. Just want to know whether it can be safely done and, if it can, if any special considerations should be taken.

3. The subreddit sidebar states I should ensure the BIOS is not locked with a Supervisor Password and that CompuTrace isn't activated, how can I ensure this? Should I just ask the ebay seller?

4. I've also grown quite fond of the old keyboard (like the one on the t61p , I believe it's called a 7-row keyboard), I've read you can replace the keyboard of a t440p with the one of a t25 , but the keyboard of the w541 is bigger (and has a numpad), is there any "old-style" keyboards that can be substituted for the default w541 keyboard? Perhaps the w520 keyboard? Else I'll learn to live with it, but it would be nice if there was any way to replace the original keyboard with the old one.

5. Another question I have is that in [libreboot's official hardware compatibility list](https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/) it states that the w541 is supported however i've read in several places that the w541 only supports coreboot and not libreboot. Why is that?

6. I loved the thinklight on my t61p, would there be any way to mod that onto a w541?

7. After a little bit of searching on newegg and various other sites, I've found an old model that's selling for pretty cheap. That, a cpu upgrade, a gpu upgrade, and an ssd upgrade (if I do end up buying it I plan on upgrading the ram too, but a little bit later, not initially) would cost me approximately 390 eur (which is approximately 420 usd right now according to google), and would leave me with a sytem with an i7-4910mq , a quadro k2100m, 1 TiB of ssd storage, 16 GiB of ram, and a 3K screen. Is this a good investment?

8. Is there anything that should deterr me from buying the w541 ? Any known issues?

To finish (but also important), the alternative would be the p52 (or p53 if I had the money, although that would be without the removable battery), which, although arguably more powerful, doesn't seem as appealing to me, mostly because of the worse upgradeability, and the lack of libreboot support. I'd appreciate if you also told me more about this model, and how it compares to the w541, perhaps that'll change my viewpoint.

Thanks a lot in advance \:)

The newest ThinkPad with a 7-row, ThinkLight, and fitting 32GB of RAM is the W520, or a W530 adapted with the keyboard from a T420,T520,W520,X220,T410,T510, or W510. The **30 models are heavily derived from the **20 designs which is why the 7-rows can be made to fit. Refer to these pages for doing the physical, electrical, and firmware mods to make the 7-row fit best.

https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Install_ ... _ThinkPads
https://github.com/hamishcoleman/thinkpad-ec

For no-nonsense and only marginally slower performance it's easier to just get a **20 model. W510 may also be a candidate, it's just less efficient but it too can do 32GB.

W540/41 can never fit a 7-row, they use a whole new case design that's pretty flimsy. This video shows it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8J53lomLOc

P-series are superior to the W540/41 in every way, they bring in Thunderbolt, NVME, and DDR4. I'm using a P71 which is the last model supporting built-in optical. Next time I need more performance I'm getting a powerful desktop and a trackpoint keyboard or doing some remote control / KVM from a classic ThinkPad.

I have both a W540 and W541 which (as you know) are essentially the same machine. I use the W541 as a backup workstation so it doesn't get a lot of use. I mostly use a full-sized desktop for most work and a T480 when I need something light "on the move". I would say that based on your previous experience, the W541 would be perfectly adequate especially running some version of Linux. However, IMHO, I wouldn't use it as a front line machine mostly based on your last point of whether it's a "good investment". Just just thing that in today's market with the availability of numerous P Series machine selling at very decent prices (at least here in the U.S.), there are a number of models that give you far greater capability at a better price/value balance especially when considering what the W541 would cost after upgrades. Yes, the build quality isn't what it was in the old IBM A31p/T60p days, but they are very decent and give you greater upgradeabilities in a number of areas such as storage and memory capability.

TPFanatic wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:47 pm

The newest ThinkPad with a 7-row, ThinkLight, and fitting 32GB of RAM is the W520, or a W530 adapted with the keyboard from a T420,T520,W520,X220,T410,T510, or W510. The **30 models are heavily derived from the **20 designs which is why the 7-rows can be made to fit. Refer to these pages for doing the physical, electrical, and firmware mods to make the 7-row fit best.

https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Install_ ... _ThinkPads
https://github.com/hamishcoleman/thinkpad-ec

For no-nonsense and only marginally slower performance it's easier to just get a **20 model. W510 may also be a candidate, it's just less efficient but it too can do 32GB.

W540/41 can never fit a 7-row, they use a whole new case design that's pretty flimsy. This video shows it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8J53lomLOc

P-series are superior to the W540/41 in every way, they bring in Thunderbolt, NVME, and DDR4. I'm using a P71 which is the last model supporting built-in optical. Next time I need more performance I'm getting a powerful desktop and a trackpoint keyboard or doing some remote control / KVM from a classic ThinkPad.

First of all, I'm sorry for the late reply.
I ended up getting the w541 as, unfortunately, the latest processor compatible with the w530 ( the i7-3940xm ) , does not fit my needs.

I'll look through those manuals anyway since the overall subject interests me.

I'll keep the p52 in mind for when i need to upgrade, thanks on the insight, that did clear it up quite a bit.

Although I did end up buying the w541 , I appreciate your insight. Thanks a lot for taking the time to respond \:)

schen wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 07, 2024 1:25 pm

I have both a W540 and W541 which (as you know) are essentially the same machine. I use the W541 as a backup workstation so it doesn't get a lot of use. I mostly use a full-sized desktop for most work and a T480 when I need something light "on the move". I would say that based on your previous experience, the W541 would be perfectly adequate especially running some version of Linux. However, IMHO, I wouldn't use it as a front line machine mostly based on your last point of whether it's a "good investment". Just just thing that in today's market with the availability of numerous P Series machine selling at very decent prices (at least here in the U.S.), there are a number of models that give you far greater capability at a better price/value balance especially when considering what the W541 would cost after upgrades. Yes, the build quality isn't what it was in the old IBM A31p/T60p days, but they are very decent and give you greater upgradeabilities in a number of areas such as storage and memory capability.

Although I ended up buying the w541 , I've considered the p52 , and seeing as it is such an amazing machine, I'll definitely consider it for the future when I need to upgrade.
Thanks a lot for the insight \:)

t61p_user wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 07, 2024 2:24 pm

Although I ended up buying the w541 , I've considered the p52 , and seeing as it is such an amazing machine, I'll definitely consider it for the future when I need to upgrade.
Thanks a lot for the insight \:)

If it was me, I'd absolutely be looking at the P5x series for a wide variety of reasons, but mostly due to the ability to hold so much modern storage and large amounts of RAM! I'll continue to use my beloved W541, but it will not be expected to offer frontline service.

schen wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:10 pm

t61p_user wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 07, 2024 2:24 pm

Although I ended up buying the w541 , I've considered the p52 , and seeing as it is such an amazing machine, I'll definitely consider it for the future when I need to upgrade.
Thanks a lot for the insight \:)

If it was me, I'd absolutely be looking at the P5x series for a wide variety of reasons, but mostly due to the ability to hold so much modern storage and large amounts of RAM! I'll continue to use my beloved W541, but it will not be expected to offer frontline service.

Yeah, I'll definitely get a p52 when I need to upgrade, although I plan on keeping the w541 for at least half a decade or so. Thanks for the insight though

Hello,

I have both P52 and W541. The main difference is the build quality. W541 seems to be made of the same thing that was used on the R series back in time. It seems robust, but nothing like the P52. And the chassis bends (right of the palmrest, above the smartcard reader and the optical drive.

The other difference is the feeling of the keyboards (not easy to install on the two laptops). On the two laptops, the keyboards are new. More key travel and more resistance on the W541 (which I prefer), less key travel and less resistance on the P52 (but the P52 has LEDs on NumLock and Caps Lock that are not present on the W541 (I installed the hotkey app to see what is the status of the keys).

The performances are also significantly different, the P52 seems to be able to eat whatever you throw at it and it's less with the W541. But for everyday use and with Windows, the two are quite similar. On the W541 I have 32 GB of RAM, on the P52 I have 64 GB, useless to say I have never used that much (I can use 16 GB easily with heavy browsing but not much more at this time). The W541 is more silent (not by much) but goes really hot (this time on the left of the touchpad). I havent compared them but the W541 seems thinner. But I haven't looked in detail, possibly just an impression.

On the two laptops the screens are good (3K on the W541, Full HD on the P52), the 3K is wow because of all the space it offers (the Full HD seems narrow in comparison even if it's comfortable for everyday use). An annoying thing on the P52 : it takes a lot of time to boot (the POST, not Windows as I have a RAID 0 of PCIe SSD). Seems thats it's related to a Thunderbolt firmware problem (dowload available on the Lenovo support site). I installed it, it's a little more quick, but still not what you could expect from such a laptop (probably ca. 45 seconds to be on the desktop). Not a problem when the machine is hibernating (I saw 9 seconds to boot in this case). For the W541, with a not fully optimized OS, the boot takes approximatively 10 seconds (a little longer since I added two sticks of RAM -I'll go further by installing identical sticks to see if it's better, I still haven't done it just 'cause I'm super lazy these days !
I use a Kingspec m.2 SATA 256 GB SSD).

I wasn't specifically searching performances when I bought those laptops, I was searching machines to complete the collection and also one machine on which I could have an official support of Windows 11 (not my cup of tea but I must use it just to know how it works).

Another annoying thing on the W541 : I changed the german keyboard for a french one and I can't control the trackpoint sensitivity (Synaptics one), it's very hard to use. Drivers problem, I juste haven't had time to look more into it. The P52 has an ELAN system, no problem, but sometimes, the cursor is recalibrating itself for several seconds and it seems to do so quite frequently and too much to my taste (but I use it most of the time with an USB mouse so I can live with it).

Ah, last thing that almost got me bald : the Wi-Fi card on the W541 (I discovered it's the same on my T440p). A Intel Wireless-AC 7260. Windows 10 installs a driver which drove me crazy : connection loss every 10 or 20 minutes. On the W541 and on the T440p, I used the Windows 8 driver (version 17-something) that I found on the Lenovo Support site and everything runs perfectly ever since !

Even if it's older and not so well manufactured, if I had to choose, I'd go for the W541, it's more appealing to me but again, it's just with my eyes, the eyes of someone who has more than 60 machines and only for the sake of the collection.W541 is harder to find, the P52 seems more mainstream. Just that it's a machine I want to keep for a long time, that can run the modern OSes. One thing is sure, if I can use my Thinkpad 600 when heavy typing, if I had to choose between W541 and P52, it's the W541 hands down.

W.

t61p_user wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 02, 2024 1:08 pm

First i'll explain a little bit of my situation and what i want (and why) , then I'll pose the questions. Please feel free to comment on the part before the questions if you feel there's anything worth mentioning though, or if you have any recommendations or observations.

So my t61p just died and I'd been wanting to get a new, more powerful thinkpad for a while now.

I'd mainly been looking at the t440p since I need the performance (I run gentoo), and as far as I know you can upgrade its cpu to a core i7-4910MQ , which is fine for me.

I need an absolute minimum of 16GiB of ram, however I'd prefer 32Gib. From what I've gathered, I can only have that if I go with the worstation series, the closest equivalent being the w540, which, apart from the screen being 1.6 inches too long for me, which I can tolerate, would be fine I guess. Although I'll probably get the w541 since I've heard there's some issues with the screen on the w540.

Now my questions:

1. How can I ensure that the model I purchase is compatible with a 32GiB of ram upgrade? Because i've seen some people say only some models of the w541 are compatible with 32GiB of ram.

2. I've also read you can theoretically upgrade to a core i7-4940MX . That would be nice, but would if be safe? Mainly asking because of the potential temperature issues. Just want to know whether it can be safely done and, if it can, if any special considerations should be taken.

3. The subreddit sidebar states I should ensure the BIOS is not locked with a Supervisor Password and that CompuTrace isn't activated, how can I ensure this? Should I just ask the ebay seller?

4. I've also grown quite fond of the old keyboard (like the one on the t61p , I believe it's called a 7-row keyboard), I've read you can replace the keyboard of a t440p with the one of a t25 , but the keyboard of the w541 is bigger (and has a numpad), is there any "old-style" keyboards that can be substituted for the default w541 keyboard? Perhaps the w520 keyboard? Else I'll learn to live with it, but it would be nice if there was any way to replace the original keyboard with the old one.

5. Another question I have is that in [libreboot's official hardware compatibility list](https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/) it states that the w541 is supported however i've read in several places that the w541 only supports coreboot and not libreboot. Why is that?

6. I loved the thinklight on my t61p, would there be any way to mod that onto a w541?

7. After a little bit of searching on newegg and various other sites, I've found an old model that's selling for pretty cheap. That, a cpu upgrade, a gpu upgrade, and an ssd upgrade (if I do end up buying it I plan on upgrading the ram too, but a little bit later, not initially) would cost me approximately 390 eur (which is approximately 420 usd right now according to google), and would leave me with a sytem with an i7-4910mq , a quadro k2100m, 1 TiB of ssd storage, 16 GiB of ram, and a 3K screen. Is this a good investment?

8. Is there anything that should deterr me from buying the w541 ? Any known issues?

To finish (but also important), the alternative would be the p52 (or p53 if I had the money, although that would be without the removable battery), which, although arguably more powerful, doesn't seem as appealing to me, mostly because of the worse upgradeability, and the lack of libreboot support. I'd appreciate if you also told me more about this model, and how it compares to the w541, perhaps that'll change my viewpoint.

Thanks a lot in advance \:)

Now you will have to change your username!