Thinkpads Forum

I am so disappointed by the design of the "retro" anniversary Thinkpad T25!

In this picture i show what we will get compared to what i was expecting! I don't understand why Lenovo treats us this way! Nobody want a compoter the way they have produced!



Your opinions?

emonect wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:13 pm

In this picture i show what we will get compared to what i was expecting! I don't understand why Lenovo treats us this way!

Why are your expectations Lenovo's fault?

emonect wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:13 pm

Nobody want a compoter the way they have produced!

I do.

emonect wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:13 pm

Your opinions?

You posted in the wrong subforum, even though I can understand the source of confusion.

Welcome to the forum, BTW.

Thanks!
Ok, so you like the 16:9 format? REally? I guess your are then not a coder. 16:9 is good for only ONE think: To watch movies!
(But then you can buy any other computer - no need to have a Thinkpad if it's only about watching movies.)

I mean seriously! Every smart phone tries now to get the border around the screen as thin as possible in order to maximize the screen size without resizing the case!
Apple is doing it with their laptops, Microsoft is doing it with their Surface computer! Why can't Lenovo be smart enough to come back to the roots? My old T60 and my W500 have better screens too! I really will not accept this and i am quite sure this T25 will be a flop!

I am a coder.

I don't like 16:9. I just don't hate it enough to reject an otherwise good machine because of it. And certainly the difference between that and 16:10 is small enough. It's not like we are talking about 4:3 or even 3:2.

In terms of quality - no way your T60 and W500 have better screens. The W500 will have a slightly higher resolution, though.

Nobody is forcing you to buy a Thinkpad 25. If screen ratio is the most important thing for you, then perhaps the Macbooks and the Surfaces are going to be more satisfactory. To me personally, the keyboard is more important, so a Thinkpad 25, even with all its flaws, is still what I would prefer over the rest of the pack.

dr_st wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:54 pm

I am a coder.

I don't like 16:9. I just don't hate it enough to reject an otherwise good machine because of it. And certainly the difference between that and 16:10 is small enough. It's not like we are talking about 4:3 or even 3:2.

I see where you are coming from. I love Thinkpads! But i am not willing to accept the 16:9 format, like ever! I would be more willing to buy a Microsoft Surface and simply add a Thinkpad USB Travel Keyboard instead of using 16:9! I have tried but it's simply such a bad choice and you are not helping the cause by blindly swallowing everything Lenovo is throwing at us.
Sorry, but i am now already waiting many many years for a real option! I don't care them producing 16:9 laptops for those who want, but at least give us ONE option with a 16:10 screen! ...

emonect wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:00 pm

I would be more willing to buy a Microsoft Surface and simply add a Thinkpad USB Travel Keyboard instead of using 16:9!

The choice is yours.

emonect wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:00 pm

you are not helping the cause by blindly swallowing everything Lenovo is throwing at us.

You don't know me enough to assume what I am and am not swallowing, much less blindly, nor to assume that my cause is the same as yours. Please don't.

emonect wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:00 pm

Sorry, but i am now already waiting many many years for a real option! I don't care them producing 16:9 laptops for those who want, but at least give us ONE option with a 16:10 screen! ...

And I was waiting for many years with a proper keyboard. Guess today is a happier day for me than for you. It happens. Hopefully next time you will get lucky.

dr_st wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:05 pm

emonect wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:00 pm

I would be more willing to buy a Microsoft Surface and simply add a Thinkpad USB Travel Keyboard instead of using 16:9!

The choice is yours.

emonect wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:00 pm

you are not helping the cause by blindly swallowing everything Lenovo is throwing at us.

You don't know me enough to assume what I am and am not swallowing, much less blindly, nor to assume that my cause is the same as yours. Please don't.

emonect wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:00 pm

Sorry, but i am now already waiting many many years for a real option! I don't care them producing 16:9 laptops for those who want, but at least give us ONE option with a 16:10 screen! ...

And I was waiting for many years with a proper keyboard. Guess today is a happier day for me than for you. It happens. Hopefully next time you will get lucky.

I was of course also waiting for a propper keyboard. I wanted a propper keyboard AND a propper screen. I got 50% of what i was expecting. Not enough for me.
But of course i would encourage others to buy the new T25 nevertheless. Only if enough people will do so they might keep the keyboard for their next model next year and MAYBE adding the screen i was waiting for.

There's a review here: https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/lapto ... hinkpad-25#

I think I might be a bit in love. Gonna buy a used one in 5 years or so.

Most of us are disappointed. Myself included.

What it boils down to for me is simply that this may be the only/last opportunity for me to get a ThinkPad with a real keyboard. Think about it, the *20 was the last "classic" model lineup generally accepted upon by the community, and had a 16:9 screen. The difference between that generation and the TP25 is lack of status LEDs and ultrabay - but WITH a factory FHD panel.

That's why I'm buying one. Not because I am head-over-heels in love with it, but because it's as close as I think we'll ever get in the modern era to the *20 series (or for those who want to point out the fact that you CAN mod a *30 series with the classic keyboard, here's that acknowledgement).

The GPU in this thing is as powerful as the GPU in my W520, and the CPU is middle-of-the-road between the 2640 and 2860 in my X220s/T420 and the W520, respectively - but with better single threaded performance than either. That's also a nice perk for me.

To each his own - I will respect anyone's choice to hate it and not buy it as much as I'll respect anyone else's choice to get one, as I have. But in the end, we're merely stuck with what we're given...

theterminator93 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:01 pm

Most of us are disappointed. Myself included.
[...]
But in the end, we're merely stuck with what we're given...

That's why I'm veering towards TGTOW - Thinkpadders Going Their Own Way.

51nb might offer us a chance to get something good, should they decide to launch an ambitious community project. Would you rather support them, or the big company that failed you yet again ?

Summilux wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:40 pm

theterminator93 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:01 pm

Most of us are disappointed. Myself included.
[...]
But in the end, we're merely stuck with what we're given...

That's why I'm veering towards TGTOW - Thinkpadders Going Their Own Way.

51nb might offer us a chance to get something good, should they decide to launch an ambitious community project. Would you rather support them, or the big company that failed you yet again ?

I also was thinking to maybe just buy a Microsoft Surface and add a Thinkpad Keyboard (USB Travel or Bluetooth) to it. Would be really cool if someone would come up with a custom build. But of course 14-15" screen size would be optimal. 13" is too small.

What exactly is this TGTOW and 51nb?

emonect wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:37 pm

I also was thinking to maybe just buy a Microsoft Surface and add a Thinkpad Keyboard (USB Travel or Bluetooth) to it. Would be really cool if someone would come up with a custom build. But of course 14-15" screen size would be optimal. 13" is too small.

If you still have a Classic Thinkpad USB Keyboard, then coupling it with a Surface could be a makeshift solution. But as good as it may be, I'd never call it a proper replacement for a Thinkpad.

13" screens are the best for me, especially when they're fitted in a 12" chassis like on the Dell XPS 13. I could settle for a 14" preferably in a 13" chassis, but that's not my first choice.

emonect wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:37 pm

What exactly is this TGTOW and 51nb?

I just made up TGTOW, basically a label for anyone who refuses to believe in Lenovo lies, refuses to buy their crap and is happy to come up with a third-party alternative in order to finally get a proper Thinkpad.

51nb.com is a Chinese forum dedicated to Thinkpads. They sometimes offer replacement motherboards to upgrade classic Thinkpads (e.g. X60).
Only the motherboard is new though, the rest is second-hand, including the screens which better be upgraded with another mod. That's where 51nb's offer (*) needs improvements and should be turned into making a new laptop from scratch.

(*) It's not a commercial offer per se, the guys at 51nb are (competent) amateurs and not a real computer-making company. But maybe this could change ?

I can understand people wanting this Thinkpad as the keyboard is a pass.

16:9 is not the majority choice but at 14 inches and with the taskbar on the left it would be tolerable.

My personal preference would have been for 13.3 inches and for anything smaller than 14 inches 16:9 gets more ridiculous IMO.

Is it a Retro Thinkpad? No.

The T25 is a modern Thinkpad that pays homage to the Thinkpad name.

They got the price right IMO . Hopefully it is not the last attempt and maybe next time a 16:10 / 4:3 / 3:2 ratio is available.

shawross wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:36 pm

Hopefully it is not the last attempt and maybe next time a 16:10 / 4:3 / 3:2 ratio is available.

Yep! Guess i have to wait another year to get the Thinkpad i am dreaming of - a modern version of the W500 or T60!

T25 is plastered all over the frontpage for the UK site. Couldn't see any details for it, so asked them via twitter. Not available in the UK.

Why advertise something they've no intention of selling. Idiots!

Probably means that it's not available yet. AFAIK, even if you assume that it will only be offered in the 13 countries listed in the original FRU BOM, Great Britain is in that list (according to the planned keyboard variants):

This was the reply :
"Dear Magic, we have no current plans for the ThinkPad 25 within the UK. Thanks for your query and interest."

No mention of yet, just "no plans". Hopefully they're just incompetent at staffing twitter, and we are actually getting it...

"Dear Magic, we have no current plans for the ThinkPad 25 within the UK. Thanks for your query and interest."

Ridiculous as it seems it is just marketing for Lenovo and Thinkpad branding. Sales advertising and marketing 101.

LOL

Eh. But Lenovo obviously didn't attend Customer relationships 101.

dr_st wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:37 pm

Probably means that it's not available yet. AFAIK, even if you assume that it will only be offered in the 13 countries listed in the original FRU BOM, Great Britain is in that list (according to the planned keyboard variants):
<snipped>

Where does that list come from ? Something T25-specific, or just a general list of parts ?

amardeep wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:08 pm

Where does that list come from ? Something T25-specific, or just a general list of parts ?

https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/jp/th/prod ... s/pd500006
https://download.lenovo.com/parts/Think ... 171003.pdf

Thanks. Oh well, there goes that theory, it is a T25 parts list. In which case Lenovo UK are as clued-up as usual, there surely will be some UK T25 sales. I guess making keyboard variants must be cheap once the keyboard is designed, as I think it was said 625 units for all of EU ?

Weird, theinquirer.net also say

Sadly, Lenovo has confirmed that it won't be available in the UK.

If true, the presence of a GB keyboard on the T25 parts list makes no sense.

Hmm..which do I believe. Some little news outlet trying to get clicks or the official HMM of the Retro. I don't believe that source outlet.

FYI: I picked up that the T25 keyboards are made by Chicony, no great loss in other words.

It seems NMB and ALPS have stopped making keyboards altogether, what would we be left with in case we needed a supplier for the crowdfunding project ? Cherry ?

RealBlackStuff wrote:FYI: I picked up that the T25 keyboards are made by Chicony, no great loss in other words.

Theoretically you could pull the domes from an NMB keyboard and glue into the retro??

Summilux wrote:It seems NMB and ALPS have stopped making keyboards altogether, what would we be left with in case we needed a supplier for the crowdfunding project ? Cherry ?

Mechanical Thinkpad keyboards... seem like something that belongs on the P70. Actually might be pretty good.

Thinkpad4by3 wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:40 am

Mechanical Thinkpad keyboards... seem like something that belongs on the P70. Actually might be pretty good.

Like the Tex Yoda, but with all 104 keys? Or just the 87 keys + Fn + volume/mic buttons?

Thinkpad4by3 wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:40 am

Mechanical Thinkpad keyboards... seem like something that belongs on the P70. Actually might be pretty good.

Ha ! But Cherry does make laptop-style keyboards :
http://cherry.de/cid/compact_keyboards_ ... &WT.mc_id=#
http://cherry.de/cid/compact_keyboards_ ... &WT.mc_id=#

Though I had the KC4000 and it wasn't nearly as nice as a Thinkpad keyboard. Maybe with our specs they could produce something acceptable.